I got some good comments on my last post, but I think some of you may have misunderstood my point, so I will just clarify and maybe add to it.
As Fearliss points out, YU is not a warm fuzzy place for young men to be taken care of. It is a college, not a yeshiva, and in order for it to be as successful as it has been, it must remain that way. At this point, students should know what they are getting in to when they get there, and surely, the Rebbeim in the Israel yeshivas know as well. Fearliss claims that this should absolve YU from any complaints regarding their lack of guidance.
I definitely see his point, however, I think that every person and institution must know their actual role as well as they way they perceive themselves. Whether they like it or not, YU is a place that many newly-committed (vulnerable) young men come to begin their journey into life. They need guidance. And if YU is going to open their doors to so many students like this, they need to be responsible in some way for their well-being. They are making advances, but I really think the burden should placed a little more on the Rebbeim, who are being paid a pretty good salary, from what I gather.
But that is not really the issue that I am most concerned with. What bothers me is the tremendous potential that is being wasted at YU. What our community needs is an option in the center. There is a large gap between the Modern Orthodox and Yeshivish communties, which are, in my mind, both generally missing the boat. There is no real community in the middle, only individuals that believe in a more balanced approach to Judaism.
There is no doubt, that many of these individuals are among those that manage and teach at YU. There is also no doubt that YU is an institution founded on a more balanced approach. The big question is the Rebbeim. If, in fact, many of the Rebbeim have more moderate views about professional life, well-roundedness, character development, modern culture etc... then they have not done a good job of espousing those views to those who really need to hear them (aka their students). Most of what they do, and really have time to do, is give shiur. Yes, there are exceptions in kind and degree, but this is generally the case.
Therefore, the culture in YU has become almost completely Torah based. This is a problem because most students are not destined for a Torah-only life, and because it allows for the continuation of the completely imbalanced and dangerous approach that many young men acquire during their time in Israel.
And if the Rebbeim are not espousing more centrist views because they don't believe in them, then maybe YU should find Rebbeim who do. It is ridiculous and dysfunctional for an institution to believe one way and to have the most influential people in that institution think differently. The big tragedy here is that YU is the one place with enough power to do something, but they constantly seem to be focusing in the wrong places or tripping over their own two feet.
Another problem is the area of leadership. (Here, I might upset some people, and I would love to find out that I am wrong.) Because these students see only maggidei shiur and not leaders/activists they only perceive greatness in Judaism through the lens of Talmud Torah.
To quote commenter Ari (from Ezzie's blog): I humbly suggest that public service / tircha d'tziburah be promoted as a legitimate expression of spirituality by the Judaic studies portion of these programs or yeshivas and seminaries. This sensitivity to the spiritual, emotional and physical needs of friends, neighbors and families might inject a little balance into the curriculum.
Could not have said it better myself. Why do you think Chovavei became so popular? There was and still is a vacuum in Modern Orthodox leadership (With notable exceptions Rabbis Blau, Dratch and others in the area of child abuse).
I would love to hear a million examples about why I am wrong.
But this is just the impression that I get.
Thursday, June 25, 2009
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11 comments:
Options in the center/middle - definitely missing!
So much more to say about this, but not for the comments section...
YD, thank you for succinctly expressing what some of us have been feeling for a while now!
Wouldn't someone argue that Chovevei's strength came from YU's shift toward the middle?
OTOH, I think Richard Joel is specifically shooting to be a strong force on the left, possibly with many reasons for this: Bringing in more money from non-religious people, he doesn't think there's enough in the middle to warrant chasing it, etc.
Personally... There is no real community in the middle, only individuals that believe in a more balanced approach to Judaism.
I've been pushing people to help join/create such a community. Instead, even among those people, they are simply weighing which is 'least bad' - the right or the left - when it comes to them and especially their children. (And by and large, they'll choose the right.)
At best, we see shuls/groups of people who are (rather than center) a mix of left and right, though I think that's a good thing.
Just to reiterate: What I was saying was basically YU "is what it is" and if you don't like it there are other options out there. Strangely, I got a personal phone call from Rich Joel last night thanking me for defending his institution. I'm not defending YU, I too wish it was a warmer place and there was a way for students to have more personal attention. However, I have no problem with it's "Torah Centric" system. I think learning and having learning stressed as the focus of your life is very important, especially in one's formative years. This is a much larger discussion which maybe you can touch on at some point, but, since the MoDox schools that we went to did a horrific job of this, when we are 18 yrs old we no pretty much zero about halacha and how to live our lives. Without stressing learning how do you suggest we correct this problem?
Also, Chovavei is popular? I don't think that's true. Do you know one person there? Here is the list of graduates http://www.yctorah.org/content/view/44/84/ how many people do you know? They have 43 grads in 8 years which is 5.375 grads/yr. That doesn't sound like a popular place to me.
Also, I can't believe my "Super Varsity" idea was not touched upon. That is pure gold. You have to play for the school you graduated from. So if you went to HAFTR but live in Teaneck now you can't play for TABC, you still gotta play for HAFTR. The competition to make those teams would be intense and every team would be very deep. 15 players per b-ball team, 20 for hockey. There wouldn't be any scrubs.
Chris Sabo?? Enjoy the game.
oh fearliss...do you really think that with 20 guys on the hockey team and 15 guys on the basketball team that hanc wouldnt be half scrubs???
I couldn't agree with Fearliss more on:
1. Super Varsity; and
2. Chovevei is far from popular, under any definition of the word.
Lastly, I find it ironic that the DRS program led to a discussion of more middle of the road options. My guess is those in the DRS program will be more to the "right" than YU and will end up influencing the HS kids to become even more mindless right wingers since it will now become cool to be as frum as the guys in the post-Israel program. The HS kids won't even know that these guys do anything but learn, since the college portion will be off the grounds, leading to an even more Torah-centric approach than YU and impressionable HS students thinking this is the way to go (which it may be for some but clearly not all). I hope that this leads to interest in yiddishkeit from the HS kids but not mindless flipping out (which would be even more mindless than in eretz yisroel where at least it is coupled with a couple of years of intense torah study). For these HS kids it would be just following the lead of the older buchrim without any idea what they are doing.
I understand the possibilities for positive influence of having a strong beis medrash in a high school I just hope Rabbi Kaminetsky gives proper guidance and perspective to the entire yeshiva (HS and post-israel).
Anon - I've heard of HANC. Aren't they the 2009 b-ball league champions? You better check yo'self cause we got Uniondale in the house. Big up to the 5-1-6!
Anon #2 - You wrote: "My guess is those in the DRS program will be more to the "right" than YU and will end up influencing the HS kids to become even more mindless right wingers since it will now become cool to be as frum as the guys in the post-Israel program. The HS kids won't even know that these guys do anything but learn, since the college portion will be off the grounds, leading to an even more Torah-centric approach than YU and impressionable HS students thinking this is the way to go"
That is a great point.
The goal of the program in DRS, if done properly, would be to cultivate the type of balanced bochurim who would have a positive influence on the high school students. The fact that the high school students would only see the bochurim learning would not mislead them into think that that's all that they do.
My personal opinion is that this program will either be a Netzach Dovid like place, especially if they have time for college in the afternoon. This would mean that the students would have to go to Brookln or Queens and take classes with girls, and those guys choose YU. If it accomodates Touro instead, then there may be a more yeshivish crowd.
I really don't think it will accomplish what I would hope it would, I really just used it as a forum to discuss YU.
Fearliss -
I have one question about Super Varsity: Who will be Rambam's starting point guard? Me or Dov Weiner?
And don't be insulted by Chris Sabo, I found him searching google for "Rec Specs," and he was a Topps All-Star Rookie in 1989.
What you are looking for is the German Torah Im Derech Eretz approach which aimed to create well rounded ba'alei batim who knew how to learn a little bit but aspired to regular careers, not kollel. The Litvishe model is a different approach. The intitutional goal is to produce gedolei yisrael, and everyone who doesn't pass muster will fall by the wayside and is expendable. If you check vol 4 of R' Dessler's Michtav m'Eliyahu he has a letter where he pretty much says this outright. YU views itself as part of the Volozhin legacy; the Rav was a Litvishe Brisker. YU amounts to the same model as other yeshivos with college grafted on.
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